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Thursday, September 23, 2010

I'm Gonna Need a Lot of Stones...

I wrote this post on Tuesday night and then sent it to my close friend Jess for her opinion. Her opinion is in red. I am leaving in the parts that she didn't agree with and commented on. I hope that by publishing this it will lead to more discussion about the issue of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

If you are not aware, Don't Ask, Don't Tell, the US military's policy on gays in the military was up for a repeal vote on Tuesday and was blocked in the Senate after being approved in the house. I am personally disappointed in the Senate. Let me rephrase that, I am ashamed and disappointed in the Senate.

I have never really made my views on gays serving in the military known on my blog. Mostly, because anyone who knows me would see my stance as a given. OK, it might be a shock to some. Let me spell it out for everyone. I support the rights of gays to serve in the military. I think Don't Ask, Don't Tell is a sham of a law. I don't think anyone should have to LIE about who they are to keep their job in the military.

I have heard a million arguments about why gays shouldn't be allowed to serve and I would like to take a minute to address some of them.

1. Gays will be harassed if they join. Hell, straights are harassed sometimes by their coworkers. It's called sexual harassment and can be punished under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice).

Just as a comment, harassing someone because they are gay isn’t necessarily sexual harassment, but harassment nonetheless. I feel fairly confident that harassment exists right now for men and women, gay or straight. It is just part of life and particularly found to be part of military life. It goes with the manly-man machismo persona that is part of SOME (not ALL) the military lifestyle. It is also (obviously) VERY common in civilian life.


On top of that, let’s talk about straight people that sleep around, cheat on their spouses and those (military) who pay child support, but don’t give two shits about the child. When did it become OK to hate someone because of whom they choose to have sex with, but in the same breath find it completely acceptable that your friends have multiple partners, are unfaithful and ignore personal responsibility? Is THAT the kind of person I want to be serving my country? Someone who can’t even man/woman up in their own life, and I am expected to trust them with protecting mine?


2. Some gay will come onto me. Believe me, gays don't want to get punched as much as straights. If a gay knows you aren't gay, believe me they aren't going to push the issue.

Yeah, that misnomer always cracks me up. Do straight people try and hump every other heterosexual they come in contact with? This line of thinking just doesn’t make any sense. Why because you are gay does morality, consideration and respect suddenly fly out the window? Gays are JUST as respectful, if not MORE, than straights. As a matter of fact, I can PERSONALLY attest to some horrendous things men have said and done to me at bars to try and get me to go home with them. My ass has NEVER been grabbed (uninvited) by another woman


3. Gay men are too girly (fairy, flamboyant, etc) to be able to handle the stress, fire a gun, ect. Hell, I know men who are straight and couldn't handle military pressure. Have you never seen those really buff gay men who could probably kick some major ass? Yeah, I want that guy next to my husband firing his weapon at the enemy.

Do you really see Bobby (Bobby is her gay roommate who might be considered flamboyant by somebody's standard but to me he is just Bobby) joining the military? Believe me; the gays that are going to join the military AFTER “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” is revoked (and one day it will be) are going to be the same gay men and women that have been joining since the beginning of the military. They join because they feel strongly about military service. It isn’t like the flood gates are going to open and all these drag queens are going to be showing up ready to go. Though drag queens can kick some serious ass. Don’t eff wit em.



4. It will cause undo stress on the military to integrate gays. Just like it caused undo stress to integrate blacks? You do know that blacks were not allowed to serve next to whites for a large portion of our nations history right? Shameful, right? Yep, that's what I thought too.

I have heard this before and that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard anyone say. Is it causing stress now? Cause you know that “the gays” have infiltrated, right? If those pesky gays hadn’t already integrated in the military, then we would have no reason to discuss “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”.


Let me put it to you this way. If someone is willing to die for their country, I don't care who he or she wants to hit the sack with; it is none of my business. Also, for those Christians who want to yell about the fact that is a sin, let me ask you this, aren't you supposed to love the sinner hate the sin? Do you think discrimination is love? If so, I might need the address to your glass house.

Again, I must bring up the unbelievable amount of fornication that happens within the church. I have PERSONALLY been involved with Christians that have cheated on their spouses, laundered money, been divorced multiple times…the list goes on. If they really want to talk about SIN then that is one thing, but it might be important to figure out what their definition of sin is. Apparently it has nothing to do with adultery or being dishonest.


I saw the below quote in an article earlier this week:


In a letter last week to Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, Land said he and his organization are "gravely concerned" that the repeal of DADT "would result in the resignation of large numbers of personnel who are currently serving in our all-volunteer services, and that it will be extremely difficult to recruit their replacements."


Re-tard-iculous. So, if these people leave the military, they are going to have to get jobs, right? Would it not be logical to say that there are going to be gays working at those jobs too? Are you going to continuously quit working and go on welfare because you have to work with gays? Do you think gay people just showed up this year? They have always been around. What the f*ck people.

I have only really commented on what you have written, but I would love to answer questions that your readers might have.

My qualifications are as follows: Card carrying lesbian. Child of parents that have both worked for the military (civilian) for 30+ years. Grandchild of three grandparents who served and retired in the Air Force and Navy. Sister of brothers who are in the Coast Guard and Air Force Reserve. Have gay friends in the military at this very moment.


I know that some of my views might lose me some followers and I am OK with that. This is my opinion and Jess'. If you disagree with me or her, I ask you at least be respectful in the comments. There will be no name calling or I will delete the comment. And for the record Jess and I are not going after all Christians because we both ARE Christians, just the ones who pick and choose what a sin is. Just getting the out in the open before someone gets their panties in a twist.

Comments (30)

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You will certainly not lose this follower. I don't care who you are, gay, straight, bi, whatever. If you're willing to cover James Bond's ass so he can come home safely to us, I welcome you in the military. James Bond thinks DADT is ridiculous too. Who cares as long as you're willing to serve honorably? Let them join. And, hey, one up side is the Army might get uniforms that aren't completely hideous. :)
Mellodee626's avatar

Mellodee626 · 758 weeks ago

I'm not leaving, either! This "issue" is even more absurd than prejudice against a person because his skin is different than your's or his eyes are different or his religion is different. When is this human races of ours, going to figure out that labels belong on packages, not people??
I can't understand people who treat others differently just because they have different beliefs, preferences or skin colour.... I hope to bring my children up the same way ;-)

Another follower here that you won't be losing
I have no problems with gays being in the military. I'm also the type of person that thinks that what you do is your business as long as it doesn't effect me. This goes for everything in my life.

To play devils advocate there are a few issues that need to be figured out before I see it passing. I'll admit I haven't been following this bill or even know much about the arguments made for or against it. but there are a few real issue I could for see with the bill passing is the housing, dependents and signing up. It's always been predominately a men with men and women with women rule. How would you work that in if you your trying to stop relations between soldiers. They clearly can not segregate them so how would it work? Then there is the marriage aspect. How would you get the rights for dependents if gay marriage isn't legal in all states. I think that there would be a slight drop in people signing up for the military from both Gay and straight. Homophobics would not want to work beside a gay person and a gay's might not want to sign up know what they might face. When slavery was ended blacks still faced hardships due to the mindset of people. In some places I feel they still do and that was how many years ago? Gays might not want to put themselves through that extended ridicule. I know that there has to be many people who are gay in the military already but would things change if Don't ask don't tell was dropped? would Gays already in the military actually come out knowing the mind set of the military. To me if you have a heart to serve this country and can pass all of the physical and mental requirements it shouldn't matter what your orientation is any more then what your race is. If your good at your job your good at your job. For me I like to look at and examine both sides of an argument to better understand it. This is just some of the things I was thinking about after reading your post.
If I wasn't already a follower of your's I'd just be about to become one!

I'd never even heard of Don't Ask, Don't tell, seems ridiculous to me, I just assumed it was irrelevant. Are in the 21st century, or have I missed something!!
You girls rock my world.
So thankful that you wrote this. I just can't understand how it was upheld in this the 21st century. It's shameful. Don't worry about me going anywhere either -- you have just earned my utmost respect, my lovey.
I'm so "proud" of you right now and you know how I mean that. Fantastic post.
I completely agree with you and don't see what all the fuss is about! In this day and age it's the most ridiculous thing to be worrying about!
To Jenn: "It's always been predominately a men with men and women with women rule. How would you work that in if you your trying to stop relations between soldiers"

They don't stop it now. It still goes on...they just don't want to be told about it. But the same goes for men and women...it goes on, they just don't want to be told about it.

In short, people that are in the military should respect themselves enough to know that when they are on the job they shouldn't be having sex. I don't have sex when I am at work...except that one time, but we will call that a lunch break...all the same, the military should not have to play babysitter. The rules should be the rule no matter if you are man and woman, woman and woman or man and man.

I don't think by lifting the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy that there will be a giant fuck-for-all out in the battlefield or on base. As said before, there are gay people already there...it just needs to be lifted so they are able to live their lives without worrying about losing the job they love.

"How would you get the rights for dependents if gay marriage isn't legal in all states. "

If you have ever been on base, you know it is a completely different world. Here in Georgia you cannot buy beer on Sunday, but if we have a friend who is one base we can ask them to buy it and ta-da! Worked around that 18th century law of no beer on Sunday. The military already extends benefits to spouses that I cannot get as a civilian. I feel like they can work this issue out very easily...no matter what State they live in.

"Would Gays already in the military actually come out knowing the mind set of the military."

My answer to this would be no. The only thing that would change is that IF they decided to perhaps go out to a gay club, or had a picture on their Facebook of their partner THEN they wouldn't have to worry about losing their job. I think they would go on about their lives just like the rest of us do. I don't exactly announce that I am gay at work...of course they know, but it wasn't flaunted, it was known over time. Nothing changed for me once everyone knew...no one made a big deal and most likely that is because I do my job and they don't give a shit what the hell I do after my job is done.

Same should be said for the military.
Agreed! If you're feeling the need to serve your country in the military; I am glad to have you covering my husband's butt on the job.
Bullets don't care who you sleep with.

I applaud and salute you both. I'm not going anywhere! It is an absurd policy for all the good reasons you wrote.

I myself have not served in the military, but many in my family did. More to the point, one of my uncles (who was gay before gay was cool) served honorably in the Seabees in Vietnam. He volunteered rather than be drafted. He didn't want to go into combat, but he didn't want to duck what he thought was his responsibility by evading the draft.

The irony was that, even though he served well, did his part, he would have been kicked out because he was gay. He defended a country that expected him to not be who he was, wouldn't allow him to marry who he wanted, or even accept who who spent his time with.

I don't agree that the DADT repeal should have been tied up with the appropriations bill. That was a bad idea, because the repeal is a completely separate issue from providing for those who serve.

Equating sexuality with character or ability is a terrible ideas, and those who oppose the repeal need to get their head out of their butts.
As one of your British readers I'm afraid I'm just utterly utterly bemused by the whole thing. The policy just seems so totally ludicrous, even though it's only ten years ago that the British Armed Forces let gay men and women serve openly.

I think it's instructive that in ten years we've gone from "impossible" to "aren't the Americans extraordinary", from "disgusting" to "how outrageously ridiculous", from "of course they can't serve" to "of course they should, and with pride".

Well done both of you for writing this. I will be equally utterly bemused, and disappointed, if anyone stops following.

Oh, instructive article on how we coped here... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8493888.stm
1 reply · active 758 weeks ago
To Jess and any others: My response was simply food for thought when it comes to "Don't ask Don't Tell." I like to look at it from different points of view to fully understand the debate. I am for lifting the DADT rule. Like I said before i was just playing devils advocate by exploring more issues than what were addressed in the post.

As far as housing issues, I wasn't expecting a "Fuck-for-all" anymore or less then what is going on now. How about the problems with soldiers who don't want to house with someone who is gay? If a women would feel uncomfortable rooming with a man can't a person who is straight feel uncomfortable rooming with a gay? Again I'm just looking at all the different possible views here.

I agree that Gays, like straights, should be able to go about their daily life without fear of losing their jobs because they are simply gay. Like I said before, A person who is good at their job is good at their job. What they do in their personal life doesn't concern me. I could care less of the sexual orientation of the people fighting next to my fiance as long as they do the job they were called to do.

As far as the military spouses getting more benefits then civilians, well we simply are asked to sacrificed more based on our spouses duty. Be it Time, Moving, Deployments, added Stress, and the possibility of injury or loss of our spouses. Could they create their own rules or laws. Yes they can, such as purchasing alcohol, but it is to protect the people on post/base. There is also the points that there are things that are not considered legal in the military that are in civilian life. Separation within marriage for example, is not recognized by the military. Either you are married or you aren't. Could they make such laws? I'm sure they can, but would it be fair for gays not in the military who live in states where gay marriage is not recognized?

Again I'm just playing devil's advocate here and exploring all possible arguments. I support the removal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," I could care less if the person fighting next to my fiance is gay, straight, bi, foreigner, alien, etc as long as they do their job.
1 reply · active 758 weeks ago
Good for you Kat, in bringing this up for discussion. I support you.
Great post! If they do their job, who cares. I am humbled by the people that protect our freedoms.
Thank you, and everyone who commented in support of our blogger. DADT is legislation of hate. Barack needs to grow some and not dilly dally - he is the commander in chief, now use that authority to make some real change. And while he's at it, don't forget the WOMEN - it's about damn time they not discriminate against women and let ALL serve in ground combat.

And for Jenn- thank you for bringing up your concerns. Even if I don't agree with everything said, I applaud you for being open about what's come to your mind and keeping the discussion going. Freedom of expression, freedom of thought, freedom of belief - these are things we should be fighting for. (NOT for oil).
1 reply · active 758 weeks ago
It's posts like this that keep me coming back. The DADT law is crap. Pure and simple. It's friggin' ridiculous and the powers that be are hiding behind bullhooey nonsense to back it up!
Excellent Post!!! DADT is something our military doesn't need, nor the American public.
I served in the Royal Navy in the 1980's and was questioned in an investigation involving two girls I knew. We all knew they were lesbians but we just let it go. I was told that the reason that gay/lesbians were not allowed was because of the threat of blackmail by extremists and at that time Irish terrorists. Which could obviously effect the security of the armed forces. I remember being shown a video of a man being blackmailed by a russian agent as part of an induction.
Of course had it been legal then the threat wouldn't have existed, but it
was different back then.
What a stupid law!!! I have never heard of it before now.

I have to admit a split second of shock that 'gays in the military' is still an issue. Ok, I'll jump back to the real world and realise that not everyone is as open minded as I am, but I guess I surround myself with so many open minded people--including bloggers, that I forget that there are people with their minds still in the dark ages. Or is that me being closed minded as well?!

Great post, and I especially love how you incorporated your friend's comments.
I remember when I was in the army (more than 50 years ago) the one person all us girls could count on was our first sergeant (Jones). She was as gay as they come and we all loved and respected her. She protected us like a mother. (I remember her throwing a young man down the back stairs who had gotten into our barracks). I will never forget her loyalty to all of us.

Don't ask, don't tell is a stupid rule. Gays bleed the same red as straights when they are wounded or killed defending my freedom. We should thank them for their service instead of condemming them. I don't have the right or am worthy to judge anyone. The Lord says judgement is His.

I was also disappointed in the Senate. Maybe come November all those
so called legislators will be going home. Can't be too soon.

I am so proud of your post. You got it just right.

Hugs and kisses to all
Granny
1 reply · active 758 weeks ago
"Some gay will come onto me."

Maybe you meant: "Some gay will come on to me"

Sorry, I don't mean to be naughty, but I think there's a difference :)
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
It doesnt matter if you are gay or straight, a bullet is a bullet and it will do the same damage - people need to stop discriminating fullstop. Good for you for standing up on this
Here, here, Kat. And, lets not forget, there are all ready gays in the military. Lots of them. I know several gay men and women who have served our country with honor. So the issue of integration is BS because they are already there.

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